The fact is, John could have broken up with Mary if he wanted to.
Sherlock could’ve pressed on the “Mary is an ex-assassin don’t trust her” issue and delivered blow after blow to John and Mary’s marriage if he wanted to.
Mary could’ve been out of the picture if they wanted her out.
THE FACT IS…
The fact is people stating their view as a fact. You see it like this, others see it differently.
Personally, I think that with the baby in mind, Sherlock (and Mycroft? And John?) thought the best way to handle the situation was to have Mary trust them and wait until the baby has arrived before taking further steps.
That’s how I see it, and my view is just as valuable as yours.
Except what I stated isn’t my view, it’s canon fact. I wasn’t stating an opinion, it’s actual canon fact, shown in actual canon scenes.
And your view is merely an opinion, not fact.
I don’t just “view” it as Sherlock forgiving Mary, or “view” it as John choosing Mary to stay as Mary Watson. Those are actual canon. And until something proves otherwise, IT IS CANON in the show.
Your whole baby-Mycroft-trust-move theory has never been alluded to nor shown to have any canon basis in the show. It’s /your/ interpretation, and it’s not WHAT’S SHOWN IN THE SHOW.
Johnlockers have such a hard time differentiating canon from what is not. You’re formulating theories, I’m merely stating WHAT HAPPENED. As of now, until S4 turns canon on its axis, the facts of the show remain.
Also, it does help that Martin Freeman confirmed that 100% Mary is the most important person in his life. Why the heck would he say that if his character is just planning to boot her out at the right time?
BC also said that Mary and Sherlock’s relationship is quite like John and Sherlock’s relationship. Those are actual words from the people who play and understand their characters better than anybody. I am not merely pulling theories out of thin air to support my ship. And forgive me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that what they say about what their characters are thinking is much more accurate and credible than what shippers want to think.
So go ahead and continue having your view, I don’t care. But don’t claim that it’s canon that they’re only pretending. Because it’s not.
What has happened is John telling Mary he forgives her, and Sherlock saying she saved his life.
And the first rule of writing is ‘Show, don’t tell’.
If you want to believe that what they told us (and not shown us) is the absolute truth, okay, fine. But I just don’t understand how you can have such trust in dialogue. And the thing I really don’t get is how you expect this to end well. Johnlock aside, I really doubt we’ll have a happy family life for John if he’s still supposed to solve crimes with Sherlock. So it’s highly probable that at the end of S4, Mary and Baby Watson are gone, one way or another. Now I’d like to see them going out with a bang, but if it turns out to be the canonical death in child birth, well, so be it. But the latter wouldn’t be half as interesting. And either way, you won’t have your happy Watson family, so why hoping for tears when we can have interesting plot?
"I just don’t understand how you can have such trust in dialogue."
I want everybody to let that sink in. Just think about that for a while. It’s literally saying “if you want to accept the canonical reality of the show, well, whatever, but I choose to reject that in favor of my own ideas”. I wish people would stop abusing “show, don’t tell”. That isn’t a be-all-end-all for writing; that’s a guide to helping people write. It does not mean “what you see is more important than what you hear”. It means “it’s more skillful if you show these things taking place rather than hearing they happened”. Watching characters fall in love is more powerful than being told they’re now in love. Watching a character die is more powerful than simply being told they’re dead. That line does not mean tossing aside dialogue if it doesn’t suit you.
Now, there sure are some cases in which you shouldn’t trust in what you hear, and that’s called “unreliable narration” or “lying”. If you’re reading Lolita, know that you need to trust in what you see more than what you hear, because Humbert is unreliable. If you’re watching Game of Thrones, consider not believing a damn word that comes out of Cersei’s mouth. There certainly are circumstances in which Sherlock and John lie, but those lies are revealed rather quickly, if not to the other characters than to the audience. There’s a reason we learned Sherlock faked his death before the hiatus pre-season 3, and that’s because waiting several years only to be told that it was all a lie is a really shitty thing to do to an audience and really bad storytelling. There is no reason to suspect John or Sherlock are lying about trusting Mary, or about her intentions in shooting Sherlock. There’s nothing in the text that is suspect, dialogue or production wise, nothing from the writers, nothing from the actors, and certainly nothing from the canon.
Headcanons are cool and interesting, but they are NEVER as valid as textual evidence, and every bit of evidence we have right now says that Mary is here to stay, she is trustworthy, faithful, and loving, and though she’s made mistakes, she has always done what she felt was right so as to do her best by John. She has tried to move past her, well, past, and I have every faith, since John burned the USB drive, that her backstory is concluded and she and John can have a family together. There’s no reason to suspect they can’t be happy together or won’t. In the canon, Watson left home for days or even weeks at a time to solve crimes with Sherlock, the way he did in series 3. It is not an obstacle for a writer as good as Moffat. I also want an interesting plot. Namely, I want an interesting, dynamic female character who subverts all known tropes about her situation and is flawed and wonderful and amazing.
And this is a little pet peeve of mine: Mary has NO canonical cause of death. Doyle never bothered to write one and Watson was stiff-upper-lip about the whole thing and barely spoke about her after Holmes came back. If childbirth is your idea, fine, it’s a popular one. My headcanon is personally tuberculosis, but this is 2014 and there’s almost no way a woman of otherwise good health should die of either of those things in the first world. Either way, she does NOT die of childbirth in the canon.
Besides, even with the “show, don’t tell” rule, John and Sherlock aren’t waiting for the baby to come before they kick out Mary. The only actual way for that to be cannon was if they said or did anything ON SCREEN (AKA SHOWING us) to indicate that. They did not. John burnt the USB drive, and Sherlock told John to trust her. That’s us being told AND SHOWN that they trust her and forgive her. Even if it was a good rule to judge stuff by, your argument would still just be your own head-cannon. You are welcome to it, and welcome to share it. But it is not actual cannon, and do not mistake it for such.
If you think that canon is what they tell you on screen then you have to believe in the Lazarus solution. If you believe in Lazarus this contradicts everything we supposed to be canon during the last hiatus. Lazarus tells us all of the second half of TRF is fake. The rooftop scene, Sherlock’s reasons for faking his death, his emotions, nothing but fake. If you believe everything they show on screen, how do you explain Moriarty’s suicide? In TRF it is canon that he has shot himself. By the end of HLV we are expected to believe he has miraculously risen from the dead again? When do people begin to understand that you can’t simply watch Sherlock and take everything at face value? That there is so much more happening under the surface? Why on earth do you lot think they make these efforts and show us countless clues that there is more to the story than meets the eye? Have you ever analysed a work of fiction? Plain reading is never enough to really understand what’s going on.
Let’s not argue about your perception of Mary Morstan. But if you take everything they say about her and evaluate it, you can’t seriously tell me they trust her. John never tells her he loves or trusts her. He just says her future problems (note problems!, this implies future problems, not future bliss) are my priviledge. Sherlock never says he forgives her. He tells John to take her back, because he chose her and she is what he likes (likes, not loves). How can you assume they are all fine, when you have literally nothing to be going on with? And again, if you chose to take everything they give you without thinking about it, without questioning it, what do you do with Moriarty?
Yesterday I read a post that said that Sherlock is a detective story, and they expect the viewer to be the detective. So accurate!
Refer to first post please, tumblr user I assume is a johnlocker who can’t accept that John married Mary because he loves her.
I was talking about choices the show showed they took. And until a time exists where they show that those choices were not genuine, we have no right to demand that John leave Mary or Sherlock stop being friends with her because THAT IS THEIR CHOICE. Johnlockers all over this site condemn John and Mary for not throwing Mary out, proclaiming that their views are canon.
Let’s see now:
Johnlockers would claim that Sherlock hates Mary: BUT ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN STANDARDS, THIS IS NOT TRUE. He never says he hates Mary. There is very little evidence to support that, even subtextually. But still, it’s very easy for some people to believe it, and I don’t see you contradicting them with your “Oh but he didn’t say it” excuse. ADD TO THAT what Ben C said, that Mary and Sherlock’s friendship is very much like John and Sherlock’s. His words, not mine. If you want to claim that Sherlock is merely being fake with Mary, then you have to admit the possibility that he’s just being fake friends with John as well. And I know you won’t do that.
Johnlockers would claim that John doesn’t love Mary: BUT AGAIN, IF WE BASE IT BY THE VERY THING YOU USED TO ATTACK MY POST, IT COULD NOT BE BELIEVED TO BE TRUE BECAUSE JOHN NEVER SAYS HE DOESN’T LOVE MARY. At least when we say he loves Mary, we infer that from the fact that he married her, the fact that even though she lied and shot his best friend he still chose to be with her, even though at the end they’re still together. ADD TO THAT what Martin Freeman confirmed, that Mary is the most important person to John, with Sherlock as a close second. If you somehow claim that John doesn’t love Mary, then automatically he feels something even less than that for Sherlock. BUT OF COURSE, you won’t want to admit that. As of this moment, the only basis you have of John not loving Mary is not hearing him say it. By your own measure of truth, I’d say that Molly Hooper is a SHIELD agent, because she never said she wasn’t. And Sherlock is actually Sheldon Cooper, because he never said he wasn’t in the Big Bang Theory.
And don’t use the “oh, but we don’t have to believe what the actors say” because everything they say about John and Sherlock’s beautiful relationship and anything shippers can magically transform into something shippy is gobbled up and believed like law. If somehow Freeman or Cumberbatch or even the writers said something about John and Sherlock having sex or kissing or being romantic, none of the johnlockers will ever bring up that whole “what the actors say don’t count as canon” bonanza.
And it’s funny how one person who contradicted my post wanted to go the “show, don’t tell” route, saying that we shouldn’t believe what the characters actually said because they’re misleading. And then you come along, and you say that we shouldn’t believe anything the characters DIDN’t say. So in conclusion, we shouldn’t believe what the characters said, and we shouldn’t believe what the characters didn’t say. Fantastic.
In any case, until there is new footage to prove that what we saw was not genuine, then as it stands, it is canon that John chose Mary to stay as his wife, and it is canon that Sherlock chose to be friends instead of enemies with Mary.
The funny thing is that johnlockers keep subscribing to the idea that Sherlock faked his death to save John’s life, when in reality (as S3 has shown us, if Lazarus was indeed true), John’s life wasn’t in danger as Mycroft had someone kill the sniper who was supposed to kill him. If you think about it, people believed the S2 canon (as in, WHAT THEY SAW ON TV) and no one bothered to say, oh, Sherlock may be faking emotion there. You just accepted it. I thought we weren’t supposed to just accept dialogue and facial expressions in this show?
And then S3 came out, and canon changed, because apparently Sherlock faked his death primarily to take Moriarty down, not to save John’s life (which was safe according to Lazarus). BUT OF COURSE, NO JOHNLOCKER WOULD ACCEPT THIS. *gasp* Canon was disproven in the subsequent series but people still stuck to the previous series canon? *bigger gasp*
And now there’s someone here telling me that I shouldn’t believe S3 canon because S4 might come up with something new? Hopefully for them, something johnlock related?
If Sherlock had told John after he drugged him in Baskerville that he was so madly in the gay love with him and/or vice versa, NO JOHNLOCKER WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED THAT. They would have accepted it as law, disregarding the whole “oooh, don’t believe anything you hear in that show”, disregarding any argument of “but he just drugged him, why would he drug someone he loves?”, just plain and simply believed what they saw as canon.
But of course, if it’s not johnlock, then nope, that can’t be canon. No matter what it is. If it doesn’t point to johnlock, then nope, we shouldn’t accept it.
And that’s exactly why the actors are getting exasperated with the johnlock fandom. Nope, I didn’t make that up. Look up interviews.
"ADD TO THAT what Martin Freeman confirmed, that Mary is the most important person to John, with Sherlock as a close second. If you somehow claim that John doesn’t love Mary, then automatically he feels something even less than that for Sherlock."
Please just tell me one thing. If I am supposed to believe what an actor tells me in an interview, why is this not shown in the finished product?